This group interview features former members of Herland (Peggy Johnson, Margaret Cox, Pat Reaves, Jean Kelsey, and Diane Trout Harwood) reflecting on the experiences with their involvement with Herland, an LGBTQ+ community space, highlighting the challenges and strengths of the collective consensus model used in the organization. Participants discuss the diverse backgrounds of the women involved, particularly in terms of education and class, and how the organization fostered an inclusive environment. They also discuss the AIDS crisis, Pride Parade, and Herland's role in larger LGBTQIA+ movement.
This documentary created by Herland member Ginger McGovern, UCO Professor of History Dr. Lindsey Churchill, and UCO graduate students Jake Crystal and Mickayla Fisher, explores the creation of the lesbian feminist activist group Herland. It explores the group's connections to the ERA movement, supporting the Fox vs. Fox case, and fighting for 2SLGBTQIA+ rights -- including more creative protests like the Lower Deck Protest, counter protests against Operation Rescue in Wichita. The documentary also discusses the way the community organized and operated including the consensus model, the importance of retreats, and their legacy.
An interview with Ginger McGovern, who has been involved with Herland, a women’s community and resource space in Oklahoma City, since 1986. She discusses Herland's origins, which began as a group of lesbians seeking to create a safe space and bookstore for women, particularly to provide access to lesbian literature and women’s music. Ginger shares the challenges the group faced, including fundraising difficulties and the eventual opening of the bookstore. She also describes Herland’s retreats, concerts, and its role in providing a safe environment for women, especially lesbians, in the socially conservative climate of Oklahoma during the 1980s. Over time, as mainstream bookstores and the internet began offering similar resources, Herland’s retail focus diminished, but its lending library remained a valuable community asset.
Jean Kelsey reflects on her involvement with Herland, beginning in the mid-1980s. She describes her early experiences with the organization, starting when a small group of women were working to create a bookstore. Jean served on the Herland board for several years and continued her involvement in an unofficial capacity after her time on the board. Jean highlights the importance of Herland as a safe space for women, particularly those who were often marginalized or misunderstood in the broader community. She shares how the physical location of the bookstore and social activities like retreats provided a supportive environment where women could relax and bond.
Jo Soske discusses her involvement with Herland, beginning from its early days when the collective first envisioned the creation of a women’s bookstore and resource center. The initial idea for the space, LaSalle de Femme, emerged from the collective's work on the Brazen Hussey Rag, a feminist newspaper launched in December 1981. Soske explains how members Jana Bircham and Tanya Peters discovered an empty storefront, negotiated a rent, and initiated the process of opening the bookstore. Through various fundraisers and workdays, the group worked to establish the space, despite challenges, including internal issues and financial setbacks. Soske details their role in organizing fundraising efforts, such as a campaign to pay off the bookstore's mortgage, and mentions their long-term connection with the center, including running a counseling practice there for over a decade. They also touch on the evolution of the space, its move to a new location, and its expansion into community organizing, including hosting events, retreats, and participating in Pride Parades. Through the interview, Soske reflects on their diverse roles in the group, from fundraising to volunteering, and discusses the legacy of LaSalle de Femme, later known as Herland, as a gathering place for feminist and LGBTQ+ communities.
This interview features Margaret Cox, a long-time activist, discussing her involvement with Herland. She first joined in 1983. Margaret reflects on the origins of the group, which evolved from a women’s reading group called LaSalle de Femme, and later became a women’s bookstore and community space. She describes how the space served as a resource for women, offering services like counseling, consciousness-raising sessions, and retreats. These retreats, in particular, were significant for creating safe spaces where women could relax and heal, away from men, and were held in remote locations. Margaret also emphasizes the group's non-hierarchical structure, where roles rotated among members, and talks about the group's approach to managing relationships, sexuality, and monogamy, particularly during the AIDS crisis. She provides insights into the inclusive and supportive atmosphere that defined Herland, where women could explore their identities and build community.
This interview with Marian Halsey and Kris Marek reflects on their involvement with Herland. They dicuss the founding of Herland by Barbara Cleveland, initially as a women’s bookstore, and the transition to a community space offering programming and retreats. Marian recalls the early retreats held at Oklahoma State Parks, where participants engaged in communal meals, local music performances, and outdoor activities, and how these events served as both a community-building tool and a fundraising opportunity. She also describes her role in producing the Herland newsletter, which kept members informed and connected. The interview highlights Herland’s evolution from a bookstore to a vibrant space for LGBTQ+ individuals in Oklahoma.
Pam Schonauer discussing her experiences with a women’s retreat and community space, likely associated with Herland. Pam reflects on the role of music in the group's early days, highlighting its significance during the retreats, where concerts and performances by women’s musicians created an intimate, communal atmosphere. She notes that over time, the focus on music has diminished, possibly due to changes in leadership or the group's evolution. Pam discusses the evolving dynamics of the group, mentioning the shift from being a women-only space to a more inclusive environment, where a broader range of people now attend. She also addresses conflicts that arose around issues of personal freedom and behavior, particularly concerning sexual activity, nudity, and substance use. The challenge of maintaining a safe space for everyone is a central theme, as individuals with different needs, such as those in recovery, found certain behaviors uncomfortable or triggering.
Pat Reaves discusses her involvement in the Legal Defense Fund. Pat explains how she and a group raised around $20,000 to assist Donnie in her legal battle to regain custody of her children. The money was used for legal expenses, but not for lawyer fees. Pat reflects on the significance of this effort as a key part of their legacy, noting the group's willingness to help despite limited resources.
Peggy Johnson shares her experiences with Herland, a community center, where she contributed to physical renovations by texturing walls and tearing down a partition, alongside other volunteer work. She also served on the board in the late 1980s and early 1990s, helping with management and maintenance tasks. Peggy reflects on her journey to Oklahoma, explaining how she originally came from Georgia, was discharged from the Navy for being a lesbian, and, along with her girlfriend, ended up in Oklahoma after initially planning to go to San Francisco or New Orleans. She was drawn to Herland after seeing a flyer for a feminist bookstore and meeting the people involved. Although she had initially planned to leave, her personal circumstances led her to stay in Oklahoma, where she continued to connect with the Herland community.
Sally reflects on her long involvement with Herland, a community space that has been central to the lesbian and LGBTQ+ community in Oklahoma for over 20 years. She describes various roles she held within the organization, including serving on the board and organizing events such as retreats and open mic nights. Sally shares stories about Herland’s early days, from its humble beginnings in a small storefront to its later expansion and establishment as a welcoming place for queer folk to gather and support each other. Sally discusses how Herland was a refuge for lesbians, providing a space where people could express themselves freely, particularly in a time when being open about one’s sexual orientation was difficult. She recalls her own experience of coming out in a small town in Oklahoma, a place she describes as conservative and not accepting of 2SLGBTQ+ individuals. Herland, in contrast, was a place where people could "drop all their fake faces" and be their authentic selves, offering a sense of community that was not available in bars or other public spaces at the time. Sally also talks about the structure of Herland, which was organized around a rotating board with positions such as "first sister" and "second sister" instead of traditional titles like president or vice president. She highlights the active and vibrant nature of the community, with events like movie nights featuring lesbian-themed films and discussions around awareness during the AIDS Crisis in the early 1980s. Herland was not just a social space but also a platform for activism, as women fought for recognition and equality in a society that largely ignored or marginalized them.
Susan shares her experiences with Herland and its founding by Barbara Cleveland in the late 1970s or early 1980s, offering a perspective on the organization’s history and significance. Although Susan was never officially part of Herland, she supported the space and recalls its early days in the Gatewood neighborhood of Oklahoma City. She discusses the importance of a women-only space for lesbians and how Herland became a refuge and a safe space for queer people to come together and share their experiences, especially in a time when lesbian visibility was limited. Susan reflects on her experience in Oklahoma, moving from Rhode Island in 1972 and adjusting to a more conservative atmosphere where she often felt isolated due to a lack of LGBTQ+ acceptance. She highlights the difficulties lesbians faced in public spaces, such as bars with hidden peepholes, and contrasts that with the open, accepting environment of Herland.
Terri reflects on her involvement with Herland (a women-only community space in Oklahoma City) over the span of 25 years. Although she was not deeply involved in its leadership or operations, she engaged with Herland through music-related activities and attended various events. Terri shares her initial introduction to Herland, noting how she discovered the space after moving to Oklahoma City and becoming familiar with the local lesbian community. Terri describes the early history of Herland, which started as a women's bookstore before expanding into the community center it became. She mentions the consensus-based structure of the organization, where decision-making was done collectively rather than through a typical board of directors, with positions referred to as "sisters" rather than traditional titles like president or vice president.
In this interview Barbara Wahru Cleveland shares her personal experiences surrounding the founding of Herland, a feminist bookstore and resource center in Oklahoma City. The interview delves into her involvement in a collective effort to open the store, which began when a group of women, including Barbara, worked together to transform an old building into a community space for women’s literature, music, and activism. She recalls the challenges of getting the store started, such as negotiating with the building's owner, who was initially hesitant, and organizing work parties to renovate the space. The interview highlights the collective spirit of the project, with women contributing in various ways, including designing T-shirts, setting up book collections, and coordinating music resources. Barbara also reflects on the broader context of women's activism in the early 1980s, particularly the push for the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) and the energy surrounding women's rights at the time. She recalls the involvement of local women’s organizations in addressing issues such as domestic violence and the lack of women in positions like police officers and doctors. Herland itself became an important center for feminist activism, hosting concerts, providing resources, and offering a space for women to organize and exchange ideas. While Barbara initially didn’t set out to run the bookstore, she ended up taking on the role, driven by the collective support and recognition of her contributions to the project. Throughout the interview, Barbara emphasizes the power of community and the importance of creating spaces that support women’s rights, empowerment, and activism.
